[Advisors] RE: [CivicAccess-discuss] Organizing? [WAS] Re: Endorsements - Open Government Partnership
michael gurstein
gurstein at gmail.com
Tue, 7 Feb 2012 09:04:30 -0800
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Wow! Thanks very much for this Tracey.
=20
A couple of interesting things about the list is that while so many of =
the
concerns and broad social objectives were similar the community
networking/community access/community informatics world doesn't seem to =
have
impinged/overlapped with the open data world at all, which to my mind is
truly astonishing.
=20
Apart from Michael L. and Allison P. and their involvement in CRACIN I =
don't
see any points of overlap even though there could (and probably should) =
have
been many.
=20
Anyway, again thanks for this and let's see if there can be some mutual
support from the two communties going forward.
=20
M
-----Original Message-----
From: civicaccess-discuss-bounces@civicaccess.ca
[mailto:civicaccess-discuss-bounces@civicaccess.ca] On Behalf Of Tracey =
P.
Lauriault
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 3:29 PM
To: civicaccess discuss
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Organizing? [WAS] Re: Endorsements - =
Open
Government Partnership
Michael L's list includes the new discourse on access to public data =
framed
as open data and open government parlayed by hacktivists, social media
users, CIOs and CTOs, and apps developers. And that movement if it can =
be
called that, in Canada starts with:
=20
a) civicaccess.ca 2005
b) datalibre.ca 2005
c) visiblegovernment 2008
d) open gov camps / changecamps & transit camps - 2008-9ish? (coming =
from
bar camps & Open source groups)
e) w2p meetups in ottawa - feds working with social media 2010?
e) open data cities starting with Nanaimo 2008? Followed by others and =
BC
and then Feds.
f) open data hacktivits/hackfests 2010?
=20
In there somewhere the creative commons folks, CIPPIC, M. Geist & L. =
Lessing
on the legal and licensing side of cultural products (e.g., mashups ,
remixing, etc.) who later but to a lesser extent got involved with data;
made a significant contribution to this NEW discourse, and in many cases =
I
think inspired the contemporary discourse and the mostly young men (few
women involved) engaged in this space today. This is of course mixed =
with
the advent of new media technologies/phenomena google maps, blogs, =
vlogs,
you tube, my delicious etc. which start sometime in 2004-5? - only a few
years ago really! And then of course grew with the intro of new mobile
hardware such as iphones / ipads and young entrepreneurs.
=20
Prior to that and still ongoing, are groups, associations, initiatives =
and
ad-hoc committees of experts along with government programs (e.g.
GeoConnections 1999) involved in this space. They did not frame their
actions as open data and open government as those concepts did not exist =
at
least not framed in that way, I think prior to the UK Guardian Campaign =
(but
I would have to do some genealogical analysis to confirm that!).
=20
These earlier groups were concerned with access to public sector
information, the creation of scientific data portals, standards,
interoperability, digital repositories, preservation, and archiving. =
Their
communities comprise librarians, geomaticians, scientists, engineers, IT
professionals, archivists, data users and special academic associations =
such
as sociologist, demographers, public health, statisticians, economists,
Geomatics, etc. These folks sometimes formed associations that crossed
their disciplinary boundaries and here are a few:
=20
a) Association of Canadian Map Libraries and Archives (ACMLA) (1967)
b) Canadian Council on Geomatics (CCOG) (1972)
c) Canadian Association of Research Libraries (CARL) (1972)
d) International Association for Social Science Information Service and
Technology (IASSIST) (1992)
e) Canadian National Committee for CODATA (1993?)
f) Data Liberation Initiative (DLI) 1996
g) Community Data Program (CDP) (1996)
h) Social Planning Network of Ontario, GANIS (1991?)
i) Canadian Association of Public Data Users (CAPDU) 1998?
j) National Data Archive Consultations (2000)
http://www.sshrc-crsh.gc.ca/about-au_sujet/publications/da_finalreport_e.=
pdf
k) CODATA Access to Data Seminar (2003)
(http://www.codata.org/canada/documents/report20030526.shtml)
l) National Consultation on Access to Scientific Research Data (NCASRD)
(2004)
m) OGC Interoperability Institute (2005?) -=20
n) Library and Archives Canada Canadian Digital Information Strategy
(2005-2008)
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/digital-initiatives/012018-3000-e.html=
0) Research Data Strategy (2010?)
http://rds-sdr.cisti-icist.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/eng/
p) Community Data Canada (2010)
=20
There are also entities who access data to inform their members and to
advance agendas, such as the Federation of Canadian Municipalities who =
put
together data intensive reports such as their Quality of Life Reporting
Systems. And of course government has been talking about this for quite
some time, most notably Natural Resources Canada, Environment Canada,
National Research Council, Library and Archives Canada. The TBS are the =
new
kids on the block.
=20
The main difference, I can discern at the moment, between the NEW =
discourse
and the founders, beyond what was already mentioned, is the politics, =
the
founders were getting interested in making data available, were =
developing
data access and use policies, were building infrastructure and trying to
consolidate gov. money and programming to that end, but were not =
framing
what they did politically around the idea of transparency It was and =
still
is data for research and reporting, and evidence-based decision making. =
The
census issue has changed that drastically, and in my mind, this was one =
of
the first times where we saw research and scientific data users and
associations come out politically on issues pertaining to data. And you =
can
see a pretty good cross section of them here -
http://datalibre.ca/census-watch/. =20
=20
Again much earlier, we have the scientists internationally in the World =
Data
Centres (1957) who were collaborating on the sharing and preservation of
data and UN Agenda 21 Earth Summit Report in Rio - see 40.1 Information =
for
Decision making - =
http://www.un.org/esa/dsd/agenda21/res_agenda21_40.shtml
which put data on the map beyond the scientists and as part of good
governance. And during all of this governments were developing =
geospatial
data infrastructures, and this is where the real grand poobah's of =
access to
public data are, their work is cross disciplinary and thinking beyond =
the
dataset but the entire policy, technical, applications, thematic, =
standards,
longevity and services component of data collection, delivery, =
discovery,
dissemination, management and now they are considering preservation. =
NRCan
is our hero here and that is why they have so much data in the TBS =
portal.
=20
The OECD March 2003 final report on Promoting Access to Public Research =
Data
for Scientific, Economic and Social Development -
http://dataaccess.ucsd.edu/Final_Report_2003.pdf was another, and of =
course
many academics have been involved in this space, and previous =
civicaccess
posts have listed them including a number of books.
=20
Now this is not comprehensive list, and it is only starts with the 2nd =
have
of the 20th century but it provides some context into the issue in =
Canada
and what I think some of the key influences were. I think this process, =
of
nominating an organization to the OGP has demonstrated, at least to me =
and
some on the list, that some bridging of communities might be useful. I =
have
been involved in both, as has Glenn Newton (science) on the list, and =
maybe
a few others have, but to date there has been not gathering of although
there has been the overlap of some individuals:
=20
community based - science - geomatics - open data new discourse
practitioners - open dialogue brokers - transparency enthusiasts - =
academics
=20
These groups of people do similar things in very different ways and with
different agendas and foci, and there is much to be gained from
acknowledging each other, listening and learning, collaborating and
bridging. That will however take much work. The licensing work in open
data cities was a start, as is the new discussions spearheaded in Ottawa =
on
metadata and portals, the GCPedia government collaborations, the Census =
got
some sparks flying, and this OGP process is getting people thinking. But =
we
have a long way to go.
=20
Finally, in terms of talking about this, Michael and I, along with =
Catherine
Roy and Jen from Visible Government (2008?) talked of organizing a
conference to bring people from these different areas together. We had =
the
support of Apathy is Boring to help with fundraising. We chose to not =
go
forward as we did not really have the financial and organizational =
resources
to pull it off at the time, but we did have a pretty good list of =
confirmed
speakers and topics planned. Maybe that is something to consider again. =
=20
=20
So let's see where we go next! and thanks Michael & Michael for starting
this thread!
=20
t
>
> On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 3:48 PM, Michael Lenczner <michael@ajah.ca> =
wrote:
>> (I've changed the subject line to indicate the swerve in topic.)
>>
>> That's a great question, Mike. It's definitely apparent from this
>> discussion that there is currently diffuse leadership in this area in
>> Canada.
>>
>> IMHO, my view of it is that David (Eaves) has been a wonderful
>> pioneer, advocate and educator for/about open data and that he's
>> served as a great go-to-person for the issue in Canada, but because =
of
>> his status as an unaffiliated individual, can not serve as an =
adequate
>> representative or even point of concentration for this issue. There
>> are other players who are traditional civil society groups, one of
>> whom is the CCSD, who do wonderful work around data, but who don't
>> seem to engage at all in the "open" dialogue and who don't know much
>> about the web technology that is the principle reason why there is
>> interest and energy in the area of government data since 2001. With
>> the creation of Visible Government in 2008 we were en route to having
>> a civil society group that was the center for this issue, but for
>> different reasons, one of which was lack of evident funders, it =
wasn't
>> able to build up enough momentum to continue to exist except as an
>> online space. And now James McKinney (and Jonathan Brun) have created
>> Open North , who will focus on open data, but this is a new group and
>> therefore has to build credibility and it appears that they will be
>> using their technical abilities to move this issue forward, as =
opposed
>> to primarily using advocacy or public education.
>>
>> Throw the creation of Civic Access in there in 2007 and AFAIK, that's
>> been the history of organizing around this space at a national level
>> so far in Canada.
>>
>> I'm curious if I've missed out any other attempts / spaces of
>> organizing. Obviously the above is my analysis on what's been going =
on
>> since I started paying attention in 2005. I don't claim to be right
>> and I'm happy for others to correct and improve my this attempt at a
>> brief history and understanding of what's gone on.
>>
>> Mike - That's my response to your question. I do not think we have
>> discussed the issue in this forum, and I do not recollect it being
>> discussed anywhere that I've seen. I do believe that we would be
>> better suited by a more organized structure representing this issue =
in
>> Canada, but I do not have any comments on whether we should focus on
>> creating that as a network of individuals and organizations or =
whether
>> we should simply continue to let the vaccum pull someone(s) into that
>> space.
>>
>>
>> Michael Lenczner
>> CEO, Ajah
>> http://www.ajah.ca
>> 514-400-4500
>> 1-888-406-2524 (AJAH)
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaellenczner
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 3:08 PM, michael gurstein <gurstein@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>> Tracey and all, I meant to comment on this earlier...
>>>
>>> Clearly the OGP (and the OG Charter as well) has an expectation for =
a
rather
>>> more developed civil society sector in this area than is I believe,
>>> currently found in Canada (something similar holds in the overall
Internet
>>> Governance area as well...
>>>
>>> I'm wondering if this has been discussed in this forum and whether =
there
are
>>> any initiatives afoot to develop a more formalized civil society
framework
>>> in the O(G)D area in Canada?
>>>
>>> M
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> CivicAccess-discuss@civicaccess.ca
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
=20
=20
=20
--
Tracey P. Lauriault
613-234-2805
=20
"Every epoch dreams the one that follows it's the dream form of the =
future,
not its reality" it is the "wish image of the collective".
=20
Walter Benjamin, between 1927-1940,
(http://www.columbia.edu/itc/architecture/ockman/pdfs/dossier_4/buck-mors=
s.p
df)
=20
=20
=20
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<DIV><SPAN class=3D141555916-07022012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 =
face=3DArial>Wow!=20
Thanks very much for this Tracey.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D141555916-07022012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D141555916-07022012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 =
face=3DArial>A=20
couple of interesting things about the list is that while so many of the =
concerns and broad social objectives were similar the community=20
networking/community access/community informatics world doesn't seem to =
have=20
impinged/overlapped with the open data world at all, which to my mind is =
truly=20
astonishing.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D141555916-07022012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D141555916-07022012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 =
face=3DArial>Apart=20
from Michael L. and Allison P. and their involvement in CRACIN I don't =
see any=20
points of overlap even though there could (and probably should) have =
been=20
many.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D141555916-07022012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D141555916-07022012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial>Anyway, again thanks for this and let's see if there can be =
some=20
mutual support from the two communties going =
forward.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D141555916-07022012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D141555916-07022012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial>M</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir=3Dltr>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr lang=3Den-us class=3DOutlookMessageHeader =
align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2=20
face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
civicaccess-discuss-bounces@civicaccess.ca=20
[mailto:civicaccess-discuss-bounces@civicaccess.ca] <B>On Behalf Of =
</B>Tracey=20
P. Lauriault<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 04, 2012 3:29 =
PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
civicaccess discuss<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] =
Organizing?=20
[WAS] Re: Endorsements - Open Government =
Partnership<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Michael L's list includes the new discourse on access to public =
data=20
framed as open data and open government parlayed by hacktivists, =
social media=20
users, CIOs and CTOs, and apps developers. And that movement if =
it can=20
be called that, in Canada starts with:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>a) <A href=3D"http://civicaccess.ca">civicaccess.ca</A> =
2005</DIV>
<DIV>b) <A href=3D"http://datalibre.ca">datalibre.ca</A> =
2005</DIV>
<DIV>c) visiblegovernment 2008</DIV>
<DIV>d) open gov camps / changecamps & transit camps - =
2008-9ish?=20
(coming from bar camps & Open source groups)</DIV>
<DIV>e) w2p meetups in ottawa - feds working with social media=20
2010?</DIV>
<DIV>e) open data cities starting with Nanaimo 2008? Followed by =
others=20
and BC and then Feds.</DIV>
<DIV>f) open data hacktivits/hackfests 2010?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In there somewhere the creative commons folks, CIPPIC, M. Geist =
& L.=20
Lessing on the legal and licensing side of cultural products (e.g., =
mashups ,=20
remixing, etc.) who later but to a lesser extent got involved with =
data; made=20
a significant contribution to this NEW discourse, and in many cases I =
think=20
inspired the contemporary discourse and the mostly young men (few =
women=20
involved) engaged in this space today. This is of course mixed =
with the=20
advent of new media technologies/phenomena google maps, blogs, vlogs, =
you=20
tube, my delicious etc. which start sometime in 2004-5? - only a few =
years ago=20
really! And then of course grew with the intro of new mobile hardware =
such as=20
iphones / ipads and young entrepreneurs.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Prior to that and still ongoing, are groups, associations, =
initiatives=20
and ad-hoc committees of experts along with government programs (e.g.=20
GeoConnections 1999) involved in this space. They did not frame =
their=20
actions as open data and open government as those concepts did not =
exist at=20
least not framed in that way, I think prior to the UK Guardian =
Campaign (but I=20
would have to do some genealogical analysis to confirm that!).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>These earlier groups were concerned with access to public sector=20
information, the creation of scientific data portals, standards,=20
interoperability, digital repositories, preservation, and archiving.=20
Their communities comprise librarians, geomaticians, scientists, =
engineers, IT professionals, archivists, data users and special =
academic=20
associations such as sociologist, demographers, public health, =
statisticians,=20
economists, Geomatics, etc. These folks sometimes formed =
associations=20
that crossed their disciplinary boundaries and here are a few:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>a) Association of Canadian Map Libraries and Archives (ACMLA)=20
(1967)</DIV>
<DIV>b) Canadian Council on Geomatics (CCOG) (1972)</DIV>
<DIV>c) Canadian Association of Research Libraries (CARL) (1972)</DIV>
<DIV>d) International Association for Social Science Information =
Service and=20
Technology (IASSIST) (1992)</DIV>
<DIV>e) Canadian National Committee for CODATA (1993?)</DIV>
<DIV>f) Data Liberation Initiative (DLI) 1996</DIV>
<DIV>g) Community Data Program (CDP) (1996)</DIV>
<DIV>h) Social Planning Network of Ontario, GANIS (1991?)</DIV>
<DIV>i) Canadian Association of Public Data Users (CAPDU) 1998?</DIV>
<DIV>j) National Data Archive Consultations (2000) <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.sshrc-crsh.gc.ca/about-au_sujet/publications/da_finalr=
eport_e.pdf">http://www.sshrc-crsh.gc.ca/about-au_sujet/publications/da_f=
inalreport_e.pdf</A></DIV>
<DIV>k) CODATA Access to Data Seminar (2003) (<A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.codata.org/canada/documents/report20030526.shtml">http=
://www.codata.org/canada/documents/report20030526.shtml</A>)</DIV>
<DIV>l) National Consultation on Access to Scientific Research Data =
(NCASRD)=20
(2004)</DIV>
<DIV>m) OGC Interoperability Institute (2005?) - </DIV>
<DIV>n) Library and Archives Canada Canadian Digital Information =
Strategy=20
(2005-2008) <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/digital-initiatives/012018-300=
0-e.html">http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/digital-initiatives/012018-3=
000-e.html</A></DIV>
<DIV>0) Research Data Strategy (2010?) <A=20
=
href=3D"http://rds-sdr.cisti-icist.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/eng/">http://rds-sdr.ci=
sti-icist.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/eng/</A></DIV>
<DIV>p) Community Data Canada (2010)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There are also entities who access data to inform their members =
and to=20
advance agendas, such as the Federation of Canadian Municipalities who =
put=20
together data intensive reports such as their Quality of Life =
Reporting=20
Systems. And of course government has been talking about this =
for quite=20
some time, most notably Natural Resources Canada, Environment Canada, =
National=20
Research Council, Library and Archives Canada. The TBS are the =
new kids=20
on the block.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The main difference, I can discern at the moment, between the NEW =
discourse and the founders, beyond what was already mentioned, is the=20
politics, the founders were getting interested in making data =
available, were=20
developing data access and use policies, were building infrastructure =
and=20
trying to consolidate gov. money and programming to that end, =
but were=20
not framing what they did politically around the idea of transparency =
It=20
was and still is data for research and reporting, and evidence-based =
decision=20
making. The census issue has changed that drastically, and in my mind, =
this=20
was one of the first times where we saw research and scientific data =
users and=20
associations come out politically on issues pertaining to data. =
And you=20
can see a pretty good cross section of them here - <A=20
=
href=3D"http://datalibre.ca/census-watch/">http://datalibre.ca/census-wat=
ch/</A>.=20
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Again much earlier, we have the scientists internationally in the =
World=20
Data Centres (1957) who were collaborating on the sharing and =
preservation of=20
data and UN Agenda 21 Earth Summit Report in Rio - see 40.1 =
Information for=20
Decision making - <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.un.org/esa/dsd/agenda21/res_agenda21_40.shtml">http://=
www.un.org/esa/dsd/agenda21/res_agenda21_40.shtml</A>=20
which put data on the map beyond the scientists and as part of good=20
governance. And during all of this governments were developing=20
geospatial data infrastructures, and this is where the real grand =
poobah’s of=20
access to public data are, their work is cross disciplinary and =
thinking=20
beyond the dataset but the entire policy, technical, applications, =
thematic,=20
standards, longevity and services component of data collection, =
delivery,=20
discovery, dissemination, management and now they are considering=20
preservation. NRCan is our hero here and that is why they have =
so much=20
data in the TBS portal.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The OECD March 2003 final report on Promoting Access to Public =
Research=20
Data for Scientific, Economic and Social Development - <A=20
=
href=3D"http://dataaccess.ucsd.edu/Final_Report_2003.pdf">http://dataacce=
ss.ucsd.edu/Final_Report_2003.pdf</A>=20
was another, and of course many academics have been involved in this =
space,=20
and previous civicaccess posts have listed them including a number of=20
books.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Now this is not comprehensive list, and it is only starts with =
the 2nd=20
have of the 20th century but it provides some context into the issue =
in Canada=20
and what I think some of the key influences were. I think this =
process,=20
of nominating an organization to the OGP has demonstrated, at least to =
me and=20
some on the list, that some bridging of communities might be useful. =
I=20
have been involved in both, as has Glenn Newton (science) on the list, =
and=20
maybe a few others have, but to date there has been not gathering of =
although=20
there has been the overlap of some individuals:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>community based - science - geomatics - open data new discourse=20
practitioners - open dialogue brokers - transparency enthusiasts -=20
academics</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>These groups of people do similar things in very different ways =
and with=20
different agendas and foci, and there is much to be gained from =
acknowledging=20
each other, listening and learning, collaborating and bridging. =
That=20
will however take much work. The licensing work in open data =
cities was=20
a start, as is the new discussions spearheaded in Ottawa on metadata =
and=20
portals, the GCPedia government collaborations, the Census got some =
sparks=20
flying, and this OGP process is getting people thinking. But we have a =
long=20
way to go.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Finally, in terms of talking about this, Michael and I, along =
with=20
Catherine Roy and Jen from Visible Government (2008?) talked of =
organizing a=20
conference to bring people from these different areas together. =
We had=20
the support of Apathy is Boring to help with fundraising. We =
chose to=20
not go forward as we did not really have the financial and =
organizational=20
resources to pull it off at the time, but we did have a pretty good =
list of=20
confirmed speakers and topics planned. Maybe that is something to =
consider=20
again. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>So let’s see where we go next! and thanks Michael & =
Michael for=20
starting this thread!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>t</DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>> On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 3:48 PM, Michael Lenczner <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:michael@ajah.ca">michael@ajah.ca</A>> wrote:</DIV>
<DIV>>> (I've changed the subject line to indicate the swerve in =
topic.)</DIV>
<DIV>>></DIV>
<DIV>>> That's a great question, Mike. It's definitely apparent =
from=20
this</DIV>
<DIV>>> discussion that there is currently diffuse leadership in =
this=20
area in</DIV>
<DIV>>> Canada.</DIV>
<DIV>>></DIV>
<DIV>>> IMHO, my view of it is that David (Eaves) has been a=20
wonderful</DIV>
<DIV>>> pioneer, advocate and educator for/about open data and =
that=20
he's</DIV>
<DIV>>> served as a great go-to-person for the issue in Canada, =
but=20
because of</DIV>
<DIV>>> his status as an unaffiliated individual, can not serve =
as an=20
adequate</DIV>
<DIV>>> representative or even point of concentration for this =
issue.=20
There</DIV>
<DIV>>> are other players who are traditional civil society =
groups, one=20
of</DIV>
<DIV>>> whom is the CCSD, who do wonderful work around data, but =
who=20
don't</DIV>
<DIV>>> seem to engage at all in the "open" dialogue and who =
don't know=20
much</DIV>
<DIV>>> about the web technology that is the principle reason =
why=20
there is</DIV>
<DIV>>> interest and energy in the area of government data since =
2001.=20
With</DIV>
<DIV>>> the creation of Visible Government in 2008 we were en =
route to=20
having</DIV>
<DIV>>> a civil society group that was the center for this =
issue, but=20
for</DIV>
<DIV>>> different reasons, one of which was lack of evident =
funders, it=20
wasn't</DIV>
<DIV>>> able to build up enough momentum to continue to exist =
except as=20
an</DIV>
<DIV>>> online space. And now James McKinney (and Jonathan Brun) =
have=20
created</DIV>
<DIV>>> Open North , who will focus on open data, but this is a =
new=20
group and</DIV>
<DIV>>> therefore has to build credibility and it appears that =
they will=20
be</DIV>
<DIV>>> using their technical abilities to move this issue =
forward, as=20
opposed</DIV>
<DIV>>> to primarily using advocacy or public education.</DIV>
<DIV>>></DIV>
<DIV>>> Throw the creation of Civic Access in there in 2007 and =
AFAIK,=20
that's</DIV>
<DIV>>> been the history of organizing around this space at a =
national=20
level</DIV>
<DIV>>> so far in Canada.</DIV>
<DIV>>></DIV>
<DIV>>> I'm curious if I've missed out any other attempts / =
spaces=20
of</DIV>
<DIV>>> organizing. Obviously the above is my analysis on what's =
been=20
going on</DIV>
<DIV>>> since I started paying attention in 2005. I don't claim =
to be=20
right</DIV>
<DIV>>> and I'm happy for others to correct and improve my this =
attempt=20
at a</DIV>
<DIV>>> brief history and understanding of what's gone on.</DIV>
<DIV>>></DIV>
<DIV>>> Mike - That's my response to your question. I do not =
think we=20
have</DIV>
<DIV>>> discussed the issue in this forum, and I do not =
recollect it=20
being</DIV>
<DIV>>> discussed anywhere that I've seen. I do believe that we =
would=20
be</DIV>
<DIV>>> better suited by a more organized structure representing =
this=20
issue in</DIV>
<DIV>>> Canada, but I do not have any comments on whether we =
should=20
focus on</DIV>
<DIV>>> creating that as a network of individuals and =
organizations or=20
whether</DIV>
<DIV>>> we should simply continue to let the vaccum pull =
someone(s) into=20
that</DIV>
<DIV>>> space.</DIV>
<DIV>>></DIV>
<DIV>>></DIV>
<DIV>>> Michael Lenczner</DIV>
<DIV>>> CEO, Ajah</DIV>
<DIV>>> <A =
href=3D"http://www.ajah.ca">http://www.ajah.ca</A></DIV>
<DIV>>> 514-400-4500</DIV>
<DIV>>> 1-888-406-2524 (AJAH)</DIV>
<DIV>>> <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaellenczner">http://www.linkedin.c=
om/in/michaellenczner</A></DIV>
<DIV>>></DIV>
<DIV>>></DIV>
<DIV>>></DIV>
<DIV>>> On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 3:08 PM, michael gurstein <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</A>> =
wrote:</DIV>
<DIV>>>> Tracey and all, I meant to comment on this =
earlier...</DIV>
<DIV>>>></DIV>
<DIV>>>> Clearly the OGP (and the OG Charter as well) has an=20
expectation for a rather</DIV>
<DIV>>>> more developed civil society sector in this area =
than is=20
I believe,</DIV>
<DIV>>>> currently found in Canada (something similar =
holds in=20
the overall Internet</DIV>
<DIV>>>> Governance area as well...</DIV>
<DIV>>>></DIV>
<DIV>>>> I'm wondering if this has been discussed in this =
forum and=20
whether there are</DIV>
<DIV>>>> any initiatives afoot to develop a more formalized =
civil=20
society framework</DIV>
<DIV>>>> in the O(G)D area in Canada?</DIV>
<DIV>>>></DIV>
<DIV>>>> M</DIV>
<DIV>> _______________________________________________</DIV>
<DIV>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list</DIV>
<DIV>> <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:CivicAccess-discuss@civicaccess.ca">CivicAccess-discuss@ci=
vicaccess.ca</A></DIV>
<DIV>> <A=20
=
href=3D"http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss">http://=
lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>--</DIV>
<DIV>Tracey P. Lauriault</DIV>
<DIV>613-234-2805</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Every epoch dreams the one that follows it's the dream form of =
the=20
future, not its reality" it is the "wish image of the =
collective".</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Walter Benjamin, between 1927-1940, (<A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.columbia.edu/itc/architecture/ockman/pdfs/dossier_4/bu=
ck-morss.pdf">http://www.columbia.edu/itc/architecture/ockman/pdfs/dossie=
r_4/buck-morss.pdf</A>)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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