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<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Oh my, we certainly
started something here. I totally agree with Evan about CIRA
being one of the best run country code domain names in the world
but it could be more transparent -- there's nothing to fear. It
is mostly all good news.</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">As for your diatribe
against ICANN, Evan, many of the things you point out are true.
I won't deny it. And I will go beyond that. I see major U.S.
interests desperately trying to keep control over the ICANN
policy while the rest of the world is increasingly pushing back.
ICANN's desperate attempts to wiggle out of the constraints presented
by the new European General Data Protection Laws are a case in
point.</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"> But, as hard pressed
as it is it is to be effective, civil society does, at least, play
an official role there. You suggest that it is all a grand
illusion? Perhaps. Time will tell. But there are a lot of people
working very very hard, volunteers putting in thousands of
hours, in order to mitigate some of the effects you noted. I think
these people deserve our respect. They don't just do it for
travel chits. A lot cheaper and fewer headaches to buy your own
ticket -- you could sling burgers at MacDonald's for a fraction
of the time you put into ICANN activities to pay for it, if you
need to. They do it because they see the same things you see and
want to hold back that tide. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">And, with respect to
your criticism of At-large, I just spent dozens of hours working
on policy concerning community applications for new gTLDs. And I
am working hard with others on protecting some categories of geo
names from being scooped up by investors so they can turn around
and sell it back to the rightful owner. So I am feeling a little
slighted by your "</font><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">fearful of losing its travel allowance that it spends
nearly zero effort on proactive ICANN policy and even less on
public education" description. I know you have done this policy
work as well. And maybe, after 6 years, I will be where you are
on the optimism/pessimism scale. I came into this fully aware of
the criticisms, the high burn out rate, the difficulty of moving
things forward. You and I have talked about this before. </font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">To me, ICANN is an
honest experiment to do things differently. It is far far from
perfect. And I suggest that the world does not know how to do
what is currently being attempted there. And it may turn out to
be unsustainable. But, if we are going to live in a globalized
world where, because of the communications facilities we have
developed, borders are increasingly hard to enforce, we better
start figuring out new ways to manage. And this is an attempt to
learn our way forward. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Namasté</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Marita</font><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/11/2018 9:55 PM, James Van
Leeuwen wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:79E53F01-A862-4F7B-A417-51BD1578EB76@ventus.ca">
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That’s a helpful response Evan, thank you.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Perhaps all the more reason for CIRA to become more
transparent in their governance, if they are setting a positive
example.
<div class="">
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>Or is my thinking misguided?</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>James</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Oct 11, 2018, at 1:00 PM, Evan Leibovitch
<<a href="mailto:evan@telly.org" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">evan@telly.org</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">On
Thu, 11 Oct 2018 at 01:44, Marita Moll <<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net" target="_blank"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">
<p class=""><font class="" face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">James, you are talking
about the ICANN policy initiative -- Alyssa
will be in Barcelona and CIRA is very
conscious of this. The way ICANN works
though, CIRA can have little impact on this.
Country codes like .ca are already set
aside. Policies around the new general top
level domains are decided through
discussions encompassing the entire
community. In the end, if civil society and
business can't come up with a good plan, I
think government reps will step in -- but
this would be highly unpopular. Like the UN,
ICANN tries to work by consensus. It's very
hard........</font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"
class="gmail_default">My take on it is a little
different. And please forgive my bluntness.<br
class="">
</div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"
class="gmail_default">What ICANN calls "the
multi-stakeholder model" (I'll abbreviate as
MSM) has devolved into capture by the domain
industry -- registries, registrars, resellers
and owners of large portfolios of speculative
domains. The inmates are running the asylum, the
industry that ICANN is supposed to oversee is
clearly in control. ICANN's interpretation of
MSM is that there's no such thing as conflict of
interest so long as you declare it. Once
declared you can bully and buy your way into
ICANN's good graces and the top of the decision
tree. By contrast, other multistakeholder bodies
such as ISOC International and IETF have much
more egalitarian models.<br class="">
</div>
<div
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"
class="gmail_default"><br class="">
</div>
<div
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"
class="gmail_default">Governments representation
in ICANN (through the GAC) has power but must
operate by consensus, and the difficulty in
getting unanimity has reduced its ability to
effect real change (its most recent obsessions
have over the entitlements to the .win and
.amazon tope level domains). Civil society seems
to do little but rail against law enforcement
and advocate for unrestrained registrant
privacy. And the At-Large Advisory Committee, of
which Marita is now a member (and I was for six
years), has become a Douglas Adams parody of
itself; it spends so much of its time caught in
procedure and fearful of losing its travel
allowance that it spends nearly zero effort on
proactive ICANN policy and even less on public
education. Bikeshedding is rampant.</div>
<div
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"
class="gmail_default"><br class="">
</div>
<div
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"
class="gmail_default">As a result, for instance,
even though the last round of top-level domains
was a total bust the industry is hell-bent on
doing more rounds and there's not a thing anyone
can do to stop it, and they don't even try. Any
time there is real dissent, ICANN trots out the
MSM and fearmongers that if it's weakened the
ITU will step in and make domain names a
multilateral treaty thing. (An increasing amount
of the community wonders if that would really be
worse.)</div>
<div
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"
class="gmail_default"><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"
class="gmail_default">By comparison,
country-code TLDs (like CIRA) are fiercely
independent of ICANN and guard that autonomy as
a matter of national sovereignty. The role of
the country code community in ICANN is to
contribute money, interface with the industry,
and ensure that ICANN doesn't do anything to
impede them.</div>
<div
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"
class="gmail_default"><br class="">
</div>
<div
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"
class="gmail_default">(In fact, I have always
considered it one of ICANN's dirty little
secrets that the public is unaware of the
distinction -- that ".co" is governed completely
different from ".com" but is marketed
identically.)<br class="">
</div>
<div
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"
class="gmail_default"><br class="">
</div>
<div
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"
class="gmail_default">Truth be told, as bad as
anyone thinks CIRA is, for all its opacity it's
quite possibly the best-run country TLD in the
world. Most certainly top 3. By contrast other
operators such as in the UK and Australia are in
a shambles. CIRA has created decent policies
that deter rampant speculation and has a
sensible approach (IMO) to Canadian presence,
and the delicate balance between domain owner
privacy and public accountability. Its
management is stable and they have avoided the
missteps that so many other CCTLDs have
encountered.</div>
<div
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"
class="gmail_default"><br class="">
</div>
<div
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"
class="gmail_default">(Disclaimer: I speak on
behalf of nobody but me. I am an owner of .ca,
.com and .org domains, none of them for resale.
I have never served on CIRA board or staff.)</div>
<div
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"
class="gmail_default"><br class="">
</div>
<div
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"
class="gmail_default">- Evan</div>
<div
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"
class="gmail_default"><br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
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