[Advisors] [NA-Discuss] The TLD-less NYC
Evan Leibovitch
evan at telly.org
Thu, 1 Dec 2011 18:02:01 -0500
--f46d040fa1c62109ad04b30fd7e1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hi there.
Sorry to be a month late to the game, but I just saw this tucked away in a
Gmail side folder. I wasn't deliberately staying silent.
I'm more than happy to engage on the issue or to answer any questions about
my positions on the "city TLD" issue, or others related. I'm right now just
finding myself becoming increasingly cynical about the social benefits of a
glut of new gTLDs as I get more deeply involved with ICANN. And while I
hate being the downer in the room, TLDs will cost plenty to apply for and
even more to run. They will have their benefits but should be extremely
carefully considered and proponents must go in eyes wide open.
I can just tell you from my PoV that if there was a campaign for a .toronto
I would be very strongly opposed if the effort was dependent *at all* on
public funds (or even on traditional community funding sources such as the
United Way). It has yet to be demonstrated to me what the value would be of
using "www.blah.vancouver" for a domain (as opposed to, say, "
blah.vancouver.ca").
Some other comments below...
On 24 October 2011 13:17, michael gurstein <gurstein@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well actually they do exist in something of a bubble i.e. those folks
> in civil society who will have heard of NARALO etc.etc. which is dare I
> say, a self-selected nsubset of a subset of a subset...
>
I would humbly disagree. ICANN At-Large has in some (but not all) areas
taken pains to be more than just civil society, and my own involvement is
evidence of that effort. My only previous governance activity culminated in
my group's opposition to the civil society statement at WSIS.
But i digress...
> In Vancouver I could see for example the Vancouver Foundation,
> Children's Aid, the Vancouver School Board, the Vancouver Library and
> specifically the Carnegie Library (that deals with those with severe
> problems, the homeless etc.) as being folks I would be interested in
> consulting on a .vancouver and if we are talking about basic framework
> issues or decisions impacting on that I think that the mega equivalents
> might be useful as interlocutors.
>
I guess.... but I question the end-game. The groups listed above would (in
my eyes at least) see zero added value in using *for example)
"www.library.vancouver" instead of the quite useful "vpl.ca" used now.
I still maintain that this ... ie, the DNS ... is little more than a
technically sophisticated directory. Creating more phonebooks doesn't make
people more interesting to call. Creating new domain names won't make
websites more interesting to visit (and in fact could just become the
source of new places for squatters and speculators to plant a whole new set
of "this space for sale" pages...)
If someone wants to make a commercial venture out of a new directory, it's
their money to lose. As a taxpayer who's seen the inside of the ICANN
sausage factory, I'd be preferring that the half-million (at least!) on
startup cost be better spent on improved bus frequency or more daycare
slots. So long as there is space in .ca -- and, generally, there is because
of the residency requirements -- the need for relief valves are far less
than they are for, say, dot-com.
Painting this as a community-involvement issue is IMO a smokescreen to mask
the utter unsustainability of most TLD proposals once the emotional element
(ie, the collective pride/ego in having "one's own" TLD) is stripped away.
In any case, what I say doesn't really matter beyond simply warning that
there be dragons here. If someone could make a case for any Canadian city
to have its own TLD I'm eager to hear it, and if someone gets investors for
one I'll wish them well. My concern comes from anyone who doesn't believe
in a TLD enough to cut into their own budgets for it, and turns to
philanthopists or the public purse to pay for something that I believe is
little more than an Internet frill. If you're going to talk about bubbles
and inclusivity, don't stop at community groups, get involved anyone who's
concerned about civic spending priorioties.
- Evan
--f46d040fa1c62109ad04b30fd7e1
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div>Hi there.</div><div><br></div><div>Sorry to be a month late to the gam=
e, but I just saw this tucked away in a Gmail side folder. I wasn't del=
iberately staying silent.</div><div><br></div><div>I'm more than happy =
to engage on the issue or to answer any questions about my positions on the=
"city TLD" issue, or others related. I'm right now just find=
ing myself becoming increasingly cynical about the social benefits of a glu=
t of new gTLDs as I get more deeply involved with ICANN. And while I hate b=
eing the downer in the room, TLDs will cost plenty to apply for and even mo=
re to run. They will have their benefits but should be extremely carefully =
considered and proponents must go in eyes wide open.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I can just tell you from my PoV that if there was a cam=
paign for a .toronto I would be very strongly opposed if the effort was dep=
endent *at all* on public funds (or even on traditional community funding s=
ources such as the United Way). It has yet to be demonstrated to me what th=
e value would be of using "www.blah.vancouver" for a domain (as o=
pposed to, say, "<a href=3D"http://blah.vancouver.ca">blah.vancouver.c=
a</a>").</div>
<div><br></div><div>Some other comments below...</div><div><br></div><br><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_quote">On 24 October 2011 13:17, michael gurstein <span d=
ir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</a>=
></span> wrote:<br>
<div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Well actually they do exis=
t in something of a bubble i.e. those folks in=C2=A0civil society who will =
have heard of NARALO etc.etc. which is dare I say, a=C2=A0self-selected nsu=
bset of a subset of a subset...<br>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>I would humbly disagree. ICANN At-Large ha=
s in some (but not all) areas taken pains to be more than just civil societ=
y, and my own involvement is evidence of that effort. My only previous gove=
rnance activity culminated in my group's=C2=A0opposition to the civil s=
ociety statement at WSIS.</div>
<div><br></div><div>But i digress...</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex;">
In Vancouver I could see for example the Vancouver Foundation, Children'=
;s=C2=A0Aid, the Vancouver School Board, the Vancouver Library and specific=
ally the=C2=A0Carnegie Library (that deals with those with severe problems,=
the homeless=C2=A0etc.) as being folks I would be interested in consulting=
on a .vancouver and=C2=A0if we are talking about basic framework issues or=
decisions impacting on=C2=A0that I think that the mega equivalents might b=
e useful as interlocutors.<br>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>I guess.... but I question the end-game. T=
he groups listed above would (in my eyes at least) see zero added value in =
using *for example) "www.library.vancouver" instead of the quite =
useful "<a href=3D"http://vpl.ca">vpl.ca</a>" used now.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I still maintain that this ... ie, the DNS ... is littl=
e more than a technically sophisticated directory. Creating more phonebooks=
doesn't make people more interesting to call. Creating new domain name=
s won't make websites more interesting to visit (and in fact could just=
become the source of new places for squatters and speculators to plant a w=
hole new set of "this space for sale" pages...)</div>
<div><br></div><div>If someone wants to make a commercial venture out of a =
new directory, it's their money to lose. As a taxpayer who's seen t=
he inside of the ICANN sausage factory, I'd be preferring that the half=
-million (at least!) on startup cost be better spent on improved bus freque=
ncy or more daycare slots. So long as there is space in .ca -- and, general=
ly, there is because of the residency requirements -- the need for relief v=
alves are far less than they are for, say, dot-com.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Painting this as a community-involvement issue is IMO a=
smokescreen to mask the utter unsustainability=C2=A0of most TLD proposals =
once the emotional element (ie, the collective pride/ego in having "on=
e's own" TLD) is stripped away.</div>
<div><br></div><div>In any case, what I say doesn't really matter beyon=
d simply warning that there be dragons here. If someone could make a case f=
or any Canadian city to have its own TLD I'm eager to hear it, and if s=
omeone gets investors for one I'll wish them well. My concern comes fro=
m anyone who doesn't believe in a TLD enough to cut into their own budg=
ets for it, and turns to philanthopists or the public purse to pay for some=
thing that I believe is little more than an Internet frill. If you're g=
oing to talk about bubbles and inclusivity, don't stop at community gro=
ups, get involved anyone who's concerned about civic spending priorioti=
es.</div>
<div><br></div><div>- Evan</div><div><br></div></div>
--f46d040fa1c62109ad04b30fd7e1--